Confusion between direct object pronouns, reflexive pronouns and en/y in imperative affirmative

Question

Bonjour Madame Cécile !A rule from the lesson states-https://french.kwiziq.com/revision/grammar/how-double-object-pronouns-behave-in-affirmative-commands-imperatif1.Adverbial pronouns en/y are placed after moi/toi/lui/nous/vous/leur  and moi/toi become m' and t’Can it be elaborated by using the following- en/ y are placed after moi/toi/lui/l’/nous/vous/leur/les.Accompagne-l’y ! -> Accompany him there ! (Here, l’ is a direct object which is better as compared to lui)Conduis-les-y ! -> Drive them there ! (Here too, les is a direct object used instead of leur)I would like to know whether direct object too satisfy this rule or only indirect object pronouns(as mentioned in the rule) could be used before en/y ?2.Cover your head ! Couvrez-vous-la! OR Couvrez-la-vous!The verb used is “se couvrir” but would ‘la’ precede ‘vous’ ?  “Vous” here is a Reflexive Pronoun but it behaves like an indirect object pronoun as the accepted answer was ‘Couvrez-la-vous !’But a Kwiziq lesson states the following pattern that reflexive pronouns precede direct object pronouns- Reflexive + direct object (double pronouns)Je serais vraiment reconnaissant de recevoir votre aide.Merci encore !

Accepted Answer

Hi Shrey,
The rule when you have two pronouns ( whichever group they belong to) in an affirmative or negative sentence is as follows -

me                        
te
se             le     
nous         la               lui
vous         les             leur          y          en
(1)          (2)              (3)          (4)       (5)

Hope this helps!

Answer

Merci Madame pour votre réponse !But if I had to write the following sentence with two pronouns-Donne les bonbons à Jean et moi ! ->Then it would be - Donne-les-nous ! But here, the order does not match with your tip, Madame.Am I missing out something?Thank you for further clarification.

Answer

Even the sentence “ Couvrez-la-vous !” does not match with the order in the tip.

Is it that your tip works best when we have to place the pronouns after the subject pronouns ?

I think for imperative affirmative , the order of line (1) and (2) can be reversed which would work .

And for negative imperative , the hierarchy remains the same.

Please help me to clarify the 2 sentences and the order mentioned above .

Cordialement

Shrey

Answer

Hi Shrey,
 I am sorry but I actually misread your question ...
The table I gave you ( also known as the football team) is correct for affirmative and negative sentences in the indicative mood tenses .
e.g.
Il nous en parlera /Il ne nous en parlera pas = He will speak /won't speak to us about it 
Il y en a trois / Il n'y en a pas trois = There are / There aren't three of them
Je le lui ai donné / Je ne le  lui ai pas donné = I gave / I didn't give it to him 
In the case of the Imperative affirmative the order and some pronouns change :
me becomes moi
te  becomes toi
and comes after the verb ( as in English) 
e.g.
Appelle-moi! / Ne m'appelle pas! = Call me!/ Don't call me! 
Vas-y!/ N'y va pas! = Go ! / Don't go !
Donne-le moi! / Ne me le donne pas! = Give it to me/ Don't give it to me!
Donne-la-lui! / Ne la lui donne pas! = Give it to him/her! / Don't give it to him/her!
Donne-m'en! / Ne m'en donne pas! = Give me some!/ Don't give me any!
Envoyez-les-lui!/ Ne les lui envoyez pas! = Send them to him/her! / Don't send them to him/her!
It becomes tricky with reflexive verbs...
Asseyons-nous! / Ne nous asseyons pas!= Let's sit down! / Let's not sit down!
To use the example of 'se couvrir la tête' which introduces an extra pronoun -
Couvre-toi-la! / Ne te la couvre pas!= Cover it!/ Don't cover it!
A couple more examples as, Se casser la jambe / se gratter la tête...
Casse-toi-la!/ Ne te la casse pas!= Break it!/ Don't break it!
Grattez-vous-la! / Ne vous la grattez pas! = Scratch it!/ Don't scratch it!
but there won't be many reflexive which take an extra pronoun and in the imperative they will sound very clumsy and even the French would avoid them.
A lot to digest ....
Very long answer to a very long question....

Answer

But, as Shrey said, the accepted answer for the following question contradicts this explanation.
Q. ''Couvrez-vous la tête!'' Write ''Cover it'' : 
A. "Couvrez-la-vous"
So shouldn't it be "Casse-la-toi" etc.?
That seems to be the opinion on this thread:
https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/fr-imp%C3%A9ratif-and-reflexive-pronouns.913557/

Answer

Bonjour Madame Cécile ! No words to express your humble gesture . I would just thank you from the bottom of my heart for spending your valuable time to provide me such exhaustive and comprehensive rules of this topic.

Answer

Bonjour Madame Cécile !

Sorry to disturb you but got another question regarding a sentence mentioned by you -

Vas-y!/ N'y vas pas! = Go ! / Don't go !

Shouldn’t it be “N’y va pas !” ?

As one drops the “s” in ER verbs even if it’s negative imperative.

Merci encore!

Answer

Well spotted - typo corrected...